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Dale Spar, Wilbur Naff, Robert Wilson, Sheriff Besman, and who else was present at that time?

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Carol Clark and Tom Schlieb, the Beaver County Times, Carol Clark, the Beaver Event-Referee

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Courier, myself, William Weitzel, NICAP Investigator, and David Webb, NICAP Investigator were present

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for the first part of the interview before Major Quintanilla asked us to leave.

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Now interviewing Dale Spar at approximately five o'clock p.m. Eastern Day at Savings Time in Nevada

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in the courthouse and Wilbur Naff for their reactions to this conference.

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And first I'd like you to say, if you can, in a few words what went on and give your reaction to it.

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Well, after you left he didn't really have a lot to say.

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He just informed us that he had checked all the activity, which he says it was easier to do by push-button

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and just telling people to get him Toledo or get Aquino or Cleveland or get whatever you want on the phone

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and through his channel of communications easier and better than coming up here as you did.

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He also said he had checked all the data for aircraft and balloon activity in the service

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or this particular day and the time.

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He'd also checked the weather conditions, the atmosphere conditions, that there wasn't a aircraft in the area,

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that there was no balloons in the area, that the ground speed at this time was three miles an hour.

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I think I lost going up so and so on. We've been in 20, 30, 40 and 45 various altitudes.

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Is this the wind speed?

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This is the airspeed.

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This is the airspeed.

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This wind speed.

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He also stated that it would have been impossible to have sighted a satellite for more than ten minutes

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of any one time in concentration.

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He said that this regret, he had to say this, that what I had was, or whether all of us had had,

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was a misconception of conventional aircraft which were in the area or hallucination of aerophenonamine

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which I don't quite understand what all I covers.

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He ruled out balloons, swarm gas, aircraft, satellites and everything with the exception of the fact that

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Venus was up in the air and evidently by that cell he could have seen and that's evidently what Blue Book is chasing.

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Did he rule out unidentified flying objects?

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He never mentioned the word unidentified flying objects.

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He did state however by taking a folder of Blue Book and telling us that on the cases they had

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the statistics are right here.

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They have all been solved.

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They also explained to us how it works, that the only ones that were ruled out and that all were the ones that had only

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wrote one letter and then they failed to answer it.

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He gave us a total for 1966, as of February 1966.

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For the total sightings he has everything all compiled in data such as they've been identified as balloons,

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they've been identified as a misconception of conventional aircraft.

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There's no nothing on here, swarm gas, it was just strictly Venus that saw it.

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There's nothing else here, nothing.

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It was all checked and weather and data and everything was all just told us that we had checked.

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It was through the Air Force and through radar and that was all.

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There was nothing in there at all.

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There was no planes, no spam and nothing.

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The area was completely vacant.

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I'd like to ask if there are any details of your sightings that you pointed out to him which to you seem to rule out Venus as the explanation.

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Well, to me the size of it, you rule out anything, the maneuverability of it.

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Also, it's a change of direction in travel, it's being able to stop.

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I would assume that this would have been an identified definition to be some kind of metallic object or what could it be metallic?

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There was no mention of this at all.

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No mention at all.

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As to what this could have been that I was saying, other than the fact that I may have had a hallucination

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or something to this effect.

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Did he claim that you might have had an hallucination?

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Not exactly, no. He didn't. He was very honest about that.

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He didn't say I had an hallucination.

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He just stated that after checking through his communications channel that there just couldn't have been anything there.

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I also have a spidex or spidex or whatever it is that this is for tracing satellites and everything.

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Also the interior and exterior of our nation.

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I would like to ask you regarding this particular aspect of it.

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When you were approaching Conway, leaving East Palestine, or approaching Rochester,

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you told me something about how the object moved before you lost sight of it.

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Could you go through that again briefly?

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Wow.

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What the object did was before you lost sight of it?

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Just before we lost sight of it, at this point I thought we were going to lose it.

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Definitely, I didn't think we'd be able to see it again.

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The object seemed to be losing the altitude very rapidly.

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Seemed to be losing altitude?

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Yeah. At first it went up and it was over the hill.

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It seemed like it was dropping or something going on.

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It went up and it went over the hill.

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Would you say that it was below the level at the top of the hill at any time?

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We couldn't see it. It had to be on the other side of it somewhere.

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Before it went over the hill, would you have said that it was below the top?

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It wouldn't have occurred. I don't think that it was a straight line.

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Did you tell this to Major Quintanilla that it was at such an altitude before it went over the hill?

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That it would have had to go up to clear the hill?

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I don't know. Just pointing to everybody seeing it in the office.

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The way it seemed like there was a lot of disconcerting about it.

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There was nothing to be concerned about.

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Barney, what about you? Do you remember if Major Quintanilla wasn't informed

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that the fact that the object was lower than the top of the hill at any time?

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No, I don't remember us saying anything to that.

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What I was wondering about is if he could account for how they expected Radar to pick up something

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that was below the hill in the direction of the radar.

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But if he wasn't informed of that, I don't know if that would...

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Radar just wouldn't actually... I do know a little bit about Radar.

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Radar, low altitude, or any of these, wouldn't have started blips on the screen.

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Radar would pick up the moving car.

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Would it pick up something behind a mountain?

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No, it would have a fade out in the spot, but it should be picking up the mountain itself.

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If there was something there in the projections in the line of travel,

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it could be an obstruction like an airport. It would be a blip on the screen,

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or they would have it in the elevation set, if they were tracing an air path,

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or something that would show us so that they could advise it so it could elevate in that way,

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or something. This comes from GCA and radar control.

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All right, now, how about the size of the object? How did he account for that with Venus?

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Well, he didn't make any effort at all.

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He didn't make any effort to reconcile the size of the object with his expression?

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No, he didn't.

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How about the metallic appearance of it?

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Nothing. He didn't say anything.

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Did you remember anything on this tube button?

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No, I didn't.

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Okay. Do you remember that he tried to reconcile or make consistent the idea of the size

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and the metallic appearance of the object with whose explanation Venus?

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No, he didn't have no recognition of the size or anything else.

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How about the maneuverability of it? Did he tell you anything about it? Why?

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Yeah, that's what he said. He said mostly it could be a nautical illusion.

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Due to what?

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Going to stare at it. It could be bigger or smaller.

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I see. Did he say anything about the light? Did you tell him how bright the light was?

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Yes, yes.

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At first. How bright did you tell him it was?

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So the brighter his hurt eyes, the better it looked directly at it.

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Did you say anything about how it looked at the ground?

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Yes, yes.

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Do you remember if Bob Wilson told him a comment which I understand that he made,

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that it was as bright as high noon out there? How much of a view of it did he make?

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I don't know if that was bright or not. There was a couple of things I know that Bob asked him

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that it was a satellite, could he photograph it?

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He said no. It was an unmanned, expensive camera that would only show a series of dots on a piece of film

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that nothing else would show up.

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Did he say a series of dots?

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Yes, if you were photographing a satellite that it would appear, unless you had an extremely fast camera

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that it would show up, dots being parallel between them.

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I'm presuming that a time exposure would be good to a mass spread.

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Yes. He said unless it was a good fast camera.

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Did you at any time confront him directly with a contradiction in his explanation and your description?

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That is, as a contradiction.

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Yes, I did.

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What went on at that time?

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I asked him once if he was, you know, maybe calling him a nut or something.

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He said no, he wasn't to respect him and his position, that he didn't call people nuts.

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And I said, well, what do you make it?

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And I don't really have to play the tape, I kind of spoke it up so I didn't use it.

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I was ready to leave, I'm not sure.

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And the discounted completing and nothing to say about it, no observation, nothing.

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Nothing to maneuver the area.

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Barney, what about you?

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Did you ever ask him a direct question about what he thought it was, that made him different from what you saw?

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No, I didn't ask him any questions. Dale was asking most of the questions in answer.

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How do you feel about what happened at the interview?

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I don't know, was it a fair interview or was it thorough enough?

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I don't figure it was thorough enough.

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So I don't believe what he said is about Venus or whatever it was up there floating around.

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They thought it was Venus.

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Did he give you the impression that he might be convinced?

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No, he didn't.

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Did it seem to you that if you had said more about it, he would have taken that into account and perhaps changed his mind?

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I don't think that anything we can say at this point.

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He changed his mind one way or another?

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Regardless.

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I think his mind is made up for it more.

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I don't think that talking to any of the other officers or interviewing anyone else or any of the sightings or talking to a summit counting or any of these people,

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I don't think any of this will alter the decision that's been made.

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It was made and recorded and this is, to my estimation, a pacification of politicians.

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I think this is a way to just pass over the whole thing and show that they had come up for an interview and just was one way to rid it of it and be done with it permanently.

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I don't think that this is a way to write it off the book to satisfy skeptics or whatever the case might be.

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I haven't the faintest idea.

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I do know that this thing is there.

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I believe it.

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I personally don't give a damn who does or doesn't believe it.

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And I change one word of what I've said.

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And I don't know.

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I just think that it was all decided on before today.

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I don't think there was any doubt about it.

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I know that he did a circuitry by coming up here.

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I think this was extended that they would take their time to come to Fortage County and I would consider it a courtesy.

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He's a very good officer and he has a hell of a job to do.

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I think that this is the only out they have.

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I accepted this.

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I respect him as a major and he has to be a freedom-tongued person to be that.

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I don't know if that's his answer because I know what I see.

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I know that your statements are what you want to be a victim of.

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I can think of it right now.

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But if I see another one, you can believe me when we're here.

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I'll call you when we invite you over to dinner sometime.

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I know we can't. I won't push your panic out any more.

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What was your reaction to what went on there?

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I don't know much about a reaction.

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I don't think he was too off the pair about it.

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I think he's made up for whatever he came up with.

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He was going to say one thing and turn it around and say he didn't say it.

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I didn't say that.

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He didn't say something like that.

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It was what he said in his situations.

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Do you mean that he would suggest something and then say that he didn't mean to suggest that?

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Something I'm not aware of.

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Can you give an example?

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If you remember anything specifically, what did you think of it?

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It's like telling us that we didn't see something.

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And after asking who might be the female group,

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who were kind of nuts or something, you know,

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that all these people were confused with each other.

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I didn't say that.

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He would just believe we were having hallucinations.

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And when we asked anybody, he would say no.

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Of course, like I said, I think this is the problem before today.